In a world that is witnessing some very disturbing geopolitical turbulence, I discuss with journalist Antoine PECQUEUR his remarkable book, “Geopolitics of Railways”. Antoine is a freelance journalist who writes regularly for the Mediapart, Le Monde Diplomatique, Alternatives Économiques and several other renowned French media houses.
In this book, Antoine deals in detail 25 railway
lines that are located in some of world’s geopolitically most sensitive (armed,
commercial or migratory) locations.
Here are few of the major railway lines that we
discuss:
Europe
🔆 Rail Baltica: Integration of the Baltic
countries into the European network.
🔆 Austria, European hub for night trains
Asia
🔆 Samjhauta Express : Friendship at the heart of the Indo-Pakistani
conflict
🔆 The new Silk Road railways, the Belt and Road
Initiative
🔆 Beijing – Lhasa: the assimilation
policy of China goes via the rail
🔆 China – Japan: The High-Speed Rail War
America
🔆 Canada: The First Nations Train
🔆 North America: A Cross-Border
Network
Africa
🔆 Tanzara: Pioneer of
China-Africa
🔆 West Africa: Vincent BOLLORE's dream of a railway loop
Middle East
🔆 Transasia: in the face of a fragile truce between Turkey
and Iran
We highlight the vital role of railways to
connect nations, people and ideas. And the discussion concludes by celebrating
the virtues of Railway in favour of the environment but also by cautioning
against the possible danger of greenwashing.
Note:
1) Simultaneous subtitles are provided in two
(French and Hindi) languages.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKD9Z2V7gIc
2) This interview could be read in the form of
an article in the following languages:
English, French, German, Marathi, Hindi, Malayalam, Bengali and Kannada.
Anubandh: Hello! My name is Anubandh KATÉ.
I am a railway engineer based in Paris and today, the topic that I have chosen, it is also about the railway. And with me, I have Antoine PECQUEUR.
Antoine: Hello Anubandh!
Anubandh: Hello Antoine!
Antoine is a freelance journalist. I will
introduce him briefly before we begin the discussion.
So, Antoine was born in 1981, after the launch
of the first French TGV (Train à Grande
Vitesse). It was indeed on 22nd
September 1981 between Paris and Lyon. And MITTERAND… François MITTERAND had
inaugurated it. Antoine, as I told you, is an independent journalist. Antoine
writes regularly for the “Mediapart,”
and for “Le Monde.” He has worked at “Le Monde”
between 2006-2012. Also, he writes occasionally for "Le Monde Diplomatique" as well as for the "Economic
Alternative". Antone was
editor-in-chief of « La Lettre du
Musicien », between and he also collaborates with “Radio France Internationale -
RFI”, “France Musique” and the “Mezzo”
channel. He is also the artistic director of the music festival « Corde sur Ciel ». He is a specialist
of cultural economies and he is a bassoonist.
Antoine has published several books. The first
one was in 2007, « Les écrans sonores de Stanley Kubrick ». In 2011, « Il Diluvio Universale ». It is a
biographical and musicological study on
the life of Michelangelo FALVETTI.
FALVETTI is a 17th century Sicilian composer. In 2013, it was « Les Plus Beaux Opéras du
Monde » and perhaps that is why the
other day you made a comment about the
Massy Opera House when we spoke on the
phone. In 2015, it was « le Métier de
Musicien d'Orchestre ». In 2016,
« Les Espaces de la Musique :
Architecture des Salles de Concert et des Opéras ». In 2021, a very
interesting book; « Atlas de la Culture
du Soft Power au Hard Power : Comment la
culture prend le pouvoir ». And in 2021,
the book we are going to speak today, «
La Géopolitique du Rail : le Train au
Cœur des Enjeux Contemporains ».
And apart from that, you obviously love to
travel. You enjoy learning
languages, music and lots of other
things.
Is that correct? Is something missing?
Antoine: It is perfect! It is absolutely perfect!
Anubandh: Okay. Thank you.
I am still going to say a word about Arthur
BEAUBOIS-JUDE, who is a cartographer
and who contributed to this book.
And the maps are magnificent! It
is really something that I enjoyed in this book.
Before we begin, may I ask you; what was your idea, what was the
inspiration behind this book? This project?
Antoine: This
book, in fact, which is my second collaboration with the publishing house
"Autrement". So, you said it.
I had started collaborating with them at the moment of « l'Atlas de la Culture ». It was my first collaboration with them. I really like this publishing house because it specializes in the Atlases and I
really wanted to work with mapping, with infographics which is what I did for the "Atlas of
Culture". I felt like doing it
again. And therefore, to do it this time
relation to the train. This was for
several reasons.
So, firstly for family reasons. My father is passionate about trains and he passed that passion on to me. That is for sure. Thanks to the magazines, in
those years… “La Vie du Rail”, that kind of thing. This magazine was really very invested in the railway
field.
Then on the other hand, I am a frequent train user. And I was taking the train for both the professional reasons… As you have understood, I have two
professional lives. One is that of a
musician, and another is that of a
journalist, or vice versa. And so,
whether it is for music tours or for
news reports, well… I have done it very
often by train. Therefore, I know the
train stations well and I wanted to know
more. And I realized that books about trains, there were many beautiful books about trains.
For example, highlighting the
beautiful locomotives or even fairly
technical books, but on the other
hand, there were few books which
showed, let us say, aspects that were happening behind the scenes. That is to say, the geopolitical, economic, societal issues related to railways that we happen behind the curtain and therefore, I wanted to embark on this adventure. Especially in a period which was also somewhat that of, not far from the health (Covid) crisis. And this health crisis has shown… It brought it back into the spotlight,
obviously, the importance of the railway. While it also recalled, of
course the entire environmental
dimension that is behind it. And it is
always necessary to remember it, of course compared to the financial aid granted to the air transport or to the
road. And that the train feels, obviously the dearth of this investment. Therefore,
I wanted to give this adventure a try and to explore my luck…
As you said, I did it jointly. It is obviously a collaborative effort, a
team effort with Arthur BEAUBOIS-JUDE,
who is a cartographer. He works for the
GEO magazine. He worked for "Jeune
Afrique" as well. So, we had that passion, the one that we shared together. Really, the idea was to
build this “Geopolitics of Rail”, indeed, in the form of an Atlas, with different inputs, each time with a text and a map to really immerse oneself in these train lines.
Anubandh: Very good. That is very true because when I
talked about this book to my colleagues
and myself including, I am in the field of railways for 15 years
now, and even myself, I had not made that connection between
the rail and the geopolitics! But when you think about it, actually, it is
quite obvious. So, I really enjoyed
discovering it and learning new aspects.
By the way, there is a word that you have used quite often in this book. It is, « Thuriféraire »! ha ha ha and that means an
"aficionado", perhaps a
railway enthusiast. So, obviously you
are a « Thuriféraire »!
Antoine: There
you go! Exactly!
Anubandh: However, you also mentioned Jean CASTEX who wrote the book« Le Train Jaune des
Pyrénées », so we can say that this
book is a kind of a reference for France. Moreover, there is also Joe BIDEN who is known as "AMTRAK Joe", to whom this title is also attributed.
Then you talked about the relevance of the
railway… So, I would like to emphasize
this before moving on. What we see here
is that there is a need to rebalance the market share between the maritime transport and the railway transport. Because 80% of
the world trade is done through
maritime. And on an average, the train
is twice faster than the boat and is at
half the price of an air flight. The
railway benefits from a more dense and efficient network. That is true for the merchandise
transport but this is also true for the passenger transport. And obviously, it is much less
polluting, if we exclude, of course,
pollution linked to the initial
infrastructure and the land-use planning, than other means of transport. Therefore,
that is important.
I would like to ask you for a few
thoughts… because in the book, you also
talked of several historical aspects.
That really struck and fascinated
me. You mentioned the "Baghdad
Bahn" which linked the city of
Baghdad to Berlin. You mentioned Josip
Broz TITO's "Blue Train".
Next, the train that Vladimir LENIN took
between Zurich and Moscow, before the revolution in Russia of 1917. There was this dream by
Cecil John RHODES, to link Cape Town to Cairo.
Thus, there is all that. On the other hand,
what is not in the book, but it is also historical and relevant, especially for the Indian audience is that Mahatma GANDHI, before beginning his political stint in
India, he was staying in South
Africa. And there, once, he was thrown
out or forced to get out of a train carriage because he was not in the right reserved class, the class that was reserved for Indians or for the Black people. And somewhere, it was a turning point in his struggle.
Another personal aspect and this is also linked to GANDHI is that I, I come from India and I come from the center of the country where GANDHI spent the last 15 years of his life, in
Wardha. It is a city that is located at
the railways crossroads; North - South - East - West. And somewhere, that also
helped made his political outings easier.
So, if you have any thoughts on these
aspects, historical figures who
shaped the perception of the
railway.
Antoine: Indeed. I think you have said something that is
truly essential. In fact, the train is
very closely linked to people, to
personalities. That is to say, very often, railway affinity is a matter of personal preference which then drives certain policies.
You gave this example of Jean CASTEX who is now the head of the SNCF (Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer
français). And who, when he was the
Prime Minister of France, he promoted the railway redevelopment. For example, the restarting of night trains
in France. It was with Emmanuel
MACRON… or the same Emmanuel
MACRON, when he was in the government of
François HOLLANDE, he had contributed to
stopping of the night train activity in
France. So, the arrival on the scene of
a railway enthusiast like Jean CASTEX,
and especially who is well aware
of the long-term implications of a massive investment that would represent for the rail sector and its impact on the environmental, on
the society at large and on all the
other aspects. And so, there we were
able to see that… By the way, he was in
the Paris - Nice night train when it got
reopened. Therefore, that is really
important to notice.
AMTRAK Joe,
it is the same thing. Joe BIDEN,
a great train enthusiast who already,
when he was the vice-president of Barack OBAMA, he had campaigned to develop high speed railways in the United States. And then to develop the railway corridors when he was himself the President of the United States. He had put this whole plan in place to build a railway infrastructure. Thus, very often, these are individual
matters, individual destinies that make
emergence of the railway. I think it is
always interesting to remind that there is this question of a certain affinity, of personal
tropism.
We also notice this in some historical
anecdotes. All the examples we had… and
then you are right to recall all these Indian examples. Because you know better than I do, obviously, India is a fabulous country. Anyone who has traveled to this country, very
often, they do it by rail. It is one of
the best ways to understand also the
Indian culture and I did not know the
story of GANDHI, but I find it
absolutely fascinating. In any case, it
is a nice common point that you have with him.
Anubandh: Absolutely!
And there is also an another important role that the train plays. It is about connecting people, nations, and
it helps the exchange of ideas. And I think, it is an absolutely important
role.
However, you also spoke in this book about
concepts like geo-economy, geostrategic
aspects and geopolitics… So, I would like... although it may seem obvious, yet I would
like you to explain to us the
differences or the interconnections
between these terms.
Antoine: In fact, it really has to be said that the
railway, it actually concerns these various geopolitical issues. Because obviously, the railway is at the heart of the tussles between powers. Just look at the role of the train in the war in Ukraine. I think that illustrates it so perfectly. One can see there how the railway is used so
effectively. Today, it is of
major importance and priority. Moreover,
one of the major railway bridges which
connects Russia to Crimea, was
bombed because it was a major and a symbolic railway line. Strategically, it was very important. Thus, this is politics, this is
geopolitics. We can understand that.
Now, Geo-economic is also directly
related... The same example. The war in Ukraine. The Ukrainian Railway company is the country's largest
employer and especially for the
transport of goods. It is an essential
link in the country's economy. And then,
obviously, when it is stopped or destroyed,
then it changes a lot of things. And on top of that, there are the problems of railway gauge which are not the same between Europe and Ukraine or between the different countries that
were within the Soviet sphere of
influence and so on… We can really see how these various problems are intertwined to make train riding today a central axis. This in fact represents a lot of global issues. Thus even with seemingly regional aspects, we end up with global issues. You only have to look… very often, you are
going to see a Chinese investment done in the case of the new Silk and
Road initiative and so on. And you will understand how a train line actually works. In fact, it says something about the state of the world.
Anubandh: Yes. Thank you.
In this book, you have talked about 25 train lines, which are active or are planned and which are located in some areas of
geopolitical tension, whether they are
armed, commercial or migratory. And
these lines are spread in all the 5 continents.
You have chosen railway lines from each continent. And what I propose is that we discuss a few
examples, a few lines from each of these
continents.
However, before that, I would also like to
talk from a technical perspective. That is because when we talk about the
railway sector, it is not just the
trains or the rolling stock, it is also
about the signaling, about the infrastructure, about the operational aspects, about the maintenance, etc. Therefore, there
are many aspects that work
together.
Antoine: Indeed Anubandh.
As you said before, it is always necessary to
repeat this that the infrastructure is
the key here. In fact, when the
railway, when you have a railway problem, most of the time… Take the example of Germany for instance which is really in a mess… there is chaos in
the railways sector over there. This is truly a country that does not
function well. Almost half of the
trains do not arrive on time there. In case of the main line connections, to
infrastructure problems. In other words, if we do not invest in the infrastructure, it does not work! This is truly something essential. This is where public investment in the railway is really important and that infrastructure is vital.
And you are right to say. We often think of the beautiful
locomotives, the beautiful trains, about
the most modern trains and in fact
perhaps, the essential link, it is the
rails itself and the ballast!
Anubandh: Of course.
Yes, the example of Germany is important because Germany has at least Thus, they have to catch up now. And that is what also causes abandoning of
certain lines. That is the reason, last
year the punctuality rate of German
trains was only 62%!
Now, I suggest
that we begin the different
continents. Thus, for me, the first
continent is Europe. And I am just going
to read the main railway lines you have
considered. And here, we will choose
only two railway projects for our discussion.
So, there is "Rail Baltica: Integration of
the Baltic countries into the European
network.” There is, "Eurostar
facing Brexit", "Austria,
European hub for night trains",
"The train at the heart of the Balkan wars", "Lyon-Turin: A risky marriage for
you", "Switzerland: A railway
model?", “France: Railcoop, the
railway cooperative,” even if this project
has been stopped, and the "Russia" example you
mentioned... "The annexation of
Crimea by train." So, these are the
projects.
And I am really interested in this Rail Baltica project. I am going to read through some key ideas
from this project, from your book and then I will invite you to comment. Thus, Rail Baltica, this is the integration of the Baltic
countries within the European network. It is a railway line of 870 km that will link Poland to Finland, across the Baltic countries, including
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. This
railway line is meant
However, in Russia, there are doubts about this project because they think that even if this project
is dedicated to passenger and freight
transport, the real objective of the
project could be to allow movement
of military equipment and troops within NATO member countries. Thus, that is the geopolitics at play. However, the project was launched or the first discussion was launched in 1994, so that was even before the integration of these countries, It is perhaps necessary to dig in deeper to verify if NATO was also involved in this discussion of their integration in the EU. In 2014, there was a joint venture between these three Baltic countries.
In 2015, there was a feasibility study of the Tallinn-Helsinki railway tunnel. This proposed tunnel is of almost 85 km which
is planned under the sea between the two
cities of Helsinki and Tallinn. The cost of this project is enormous. The cost for this tunnel alone is around 20 billion Euros and your book was published in 2021. Thus, these are the prices of that era.
Today, we need to check what its current cost is. The tunnel is approximately 85 km long and
as I told you, it is the longest
underwater tunnel in the world. The European
Court of Auditors had judged that this
project was not viable.
The inauguration of this project was supposed to be this year, in 2026, but ultimately it does not seem to be happening before 2030. Then there is
this railway gauge difference that you
were talking about in these
countries… The track gauge is 1520 mm in
these countries, as it is also in Russia. While in the rest of Europe, it is
1435 mm. Thus, this new line, it would be of this European standard. Apparently,
the European Union (EU) invested a lot
of money in this project. But, there is
still a shortage of money. And thus, it
is China which came and invested there!
Therefore, we see all this geopolitics that is at play. These are the key points for me.
I now invite you to comment.
Antoine: Indeed, Rail Baltica.
You really have to imagine that it is an anti-Putin railway front which is currently being carried out. Well, in this case... The project has been
discussed and debated for a long
time. But now, since October 2025, the
project is well and truly underway. The tracks have been laid out. There are infrastructures that are being
built, railway terminals and so on. The renovations of stations are being carried
out, so as to double the platforms, in
order to accommodate this entire new
railway line. As you said, that is the
whole point. It is obviously about
having a line to tailored to European gauge,
in order to be able to connect the
three Baltic countries; Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, to the rest of the European Union (EU).
Today, these countries, their historical background links them to
Russia and of course, in the face of the
Russian threat and even more so since
the war in Ukraine, the three Baltic
countries want to be able to get closer
to the rest of the Europe in terms of transport of passengers, and of course also for goods. Because, this is really on an axis, at the heart of eastern and western Europe. Thus, in logistics, this is obviously very
important. In particular, there is an intermodal terminal in Kaunas which is a very important infrastructure for the fret but also for the military transport.
Besides,
it is officially confirmed that
NATO is a stakeholder in this project,
to such an extent that, for example,
the platforms of train stations are designed to be able to accommodate military
convoys. Thus, the construction is being done in consultation with NATO. The funding, the major part of it is
obviously provided by the European Union
(EU), and also by different
countries. Thus, there is a structure
which was created, which brings together
these three countries. The headquarter
is in Riga, Estonia. And so, right now, this project through the Baltic
countries, it is definitely
launched. The construction site is in
full swing. The opening of the line is planned in 2030.
The only important question that remains is for the tunnel which is
an absolutely incredible project in itself. This would be the longest underwater tunnel
in the world and it was supposed to be
part of the new Chinese silk roads. Thus, obviously, the war in Ukraine has
changed things somewhat. It is
complicated for Xi JINPING's China to form alliances directly with the Baltic countries. In addition, also some Baltic countries recognize Taiwan. Thus, this project, which is as well backed by a local Estonian
entrepreneur, for the moment is under quite some scrutiny. But, in any case, it would be the logical next
step to be able to connect Rail Baltica
to Finland via this tunnel. However,
even without the underwater tunnel, this
project remains impressive.
And you said it. The cost is really much more
than this one. It must be today around
25 billion Euros. So, indeed, because it
is a real engineering challenge with the skepticism of the Russian-speaking communities who see this project as a purely pro-western project. And also the opposition from some environmentalists, because, indeed, this line passes through numerous natural reserves. Therefore, this is a project that is
generating a lot of debate and which alone concentrates many issues which we mentioned in the introduction.
Anubandh: Of course. For me, this project has
everything!
And besides, there are quite a few French companies such as Alstom, Systra, and
Eiffage… that are interested in it.
Antoine: Yes, they are definitely on the construction
site. That is clear.
Anubandh: Very good.
Now, we will move on to our second
project.
These are the night trains which you have already
mentioned briefly earlier.
And for me, it was really something very
fascinating. We already talked about
this at the beginning regarding what happened in France in this matter. You say that in France in the year 2000, there were 67 lines of night trains. And in 2020, out of these only two remained. And of course, it was in 2016 that the real
halt came. This decision had been
made by the “MACRON law”, in order to promote the private, "MACRON buses".
However, this situation is not only specific to
France. Apparently, that is how it happened pretty much everywhere in Europe, including in Germany, which has also
stopped its night trains the same year. And there was also the privatization
process.
However, there was one country, and it was Austria that decided to do things differently. The geography of Austria, going from West to East, facilitates this format of
the night time hours. Its geographical location is at the very heart of Europe. Thus, it decided to bet on that and every year since 2016, Austria opens a new line, an additional night train line. For example, it had Vienna – Berlin, Salzburg – Venice, Hamburg – Zurich. These are international night train
lines with Vienna as a hub. Since then, the number of travelers has
doubled and the night train business is generating profit since 2019. Passengers enjoy or they prefer this
mode of transport because it is
environmental friendly and is also
practical and economical. It also saves
you a night in a hotel. How did the company OBB (Österreichische Bundesbahnen)
made this turn around? Initially, it
bought some old Deutsche Bahn rolling stocks.
It renovated it at first, but then OBB placed a new order of 250,000 euros to Siemens to buy new railway night train coaches.
Antoine: It is indeed a gamble. It was still successful,
though. What did Austria do
differently which at that moment, when
all other countries were exiting the night trains?
Austria said, no! They said, we
are going to bet on it. And we are going
to make Austria a central point in Europe for these night train services. Thus, of course, operating the night train is
complicated. It is obviously expensive to run trains at night, for questions such as border crossing personnel. It makes things
quite complex. On international railway
routes, on board a night train you have fewer passengers than in a daytime
train. Above all, a daytime train you can make it run without stopping, making lot of business. A night train, obviously, will only be used once. It will have to wait to leave again the following night. Thus,
there really are many reasons that make
it economically quite complex.
But, that does not change the fact that
today, we are seeing some real success
in this area. Thus, why are we seeing
success? because there is a real
demand. Very clearly, there are customers,
travelers who want to take the
night train for many different
reasons. When you board a night
train, you will also have young
people who want to take it for
somewhat economical reasons, because
indeed a night train avoids the need for
a hotel night. For ecological reasons,
of course. A train is obviously much better than flying. You have elderly people who want to
avoid going to airports, spending
hours at security checks. You are going to have… quite a different type of people in the
night trains. And in any case,
they are often full. Their occupancy
rate, it really shows that there is a very, very strong demand about that.
So yes, it requires resources. It is such a shame that France has not
invested a little money to allow the Paris – Vienna night train to continue.
Because, it involves a lot of partnerships. And OBB said that the Paris-Vienna night train would be kept functional only
if, of course, if this partnership
is continued with France. And the later
chose not to continue it anymore. And
neither does the Paris-Berlin route is functional anymore. However, this contract was taken over by a
cooperative.
And a little word about this cooperative because there is a lot of talk about
OBB, from the public company
perspective. However, there is a private actor
which managed to get by on the night train. And that is quite a challenge when you see all the expensive
investments. It is the « European
Sleeper » which is a Dutch
cooperative and which notably
launched a Brussels - Amsterdam - Prague
route that takes over the Paris-Berlin
route. In particular, their business
model works because they are in the
rental business of equipments and not of
purchase. It is a different economic
model because other actors have
failed. For instance, "Midnight
Trains". This start-up which wanted
to make somewhat luxurious night
trains. They did not succeed. Thus, it is a complicated business
model. However, today, there is a real
demand. And the proof is in European
Sleeper on the private side or OBB, on the public side. It is a proof that it can work very
well.
Anubandh: Super!
We talked a little bit about India and I would also like to say that in
India, I do not know if you know this or
not. but all the trains are night
trains! There are no dedicated night
trains. There are some trains which do
not have sleeper coaches but practically all the trains, perhaps 90% of the trains have sleeper
berths. That is because the distances
are very long and the trains travel
slower than in Europe. Thus, it easily
makes up for a 7-8 hour of a journey, even if the distances are not huge.
And that is why
I sometimes think to myself that in France, even on this Paris-Lyon section, the TGV is going so fast. But at night, if we drove slower, we can run a night train.
Antoine: Of course, of course, exactly!
In any case, I think there is a genuine demand and personally, I am a great lover of night trains. Thus, I did a lot of these lines and I invite
the audience who are listening to
us to do the same. Because, it is always an adventure. It is incredible to meet people on the
train that use this mode of
transport. It is one of the best
ways to understand a country,
certainly much better than through a
duty-free shop of an airport area.
Anubandh: Absolutely!
Okay, we have been talking about India, so let
us go to India! Now, this is the Asia continent. But in this continent, you took the example of the « Samjhauta Express : Friendship at the heart of the Indo-Pakistani
conflict" "The new Silk Road
railways, the Belt and Road
Initiative” “China – Japan: The
High-Speed Rail War” “Beijing – Lhasa:
the assimilation policy of China goes
via the rail.", "North Korea:
The Dictatorship of the Rails.",
Okay, before we talk about the example of India, I would also like to refer to this historical background between India and Pakistan. As you know,
in 1947, these two countries
separated. And that separation was
quite bloody and painful. There were over 14 million displaced people
and between 3 - 5 million deaths. Anyway, these are rough estimates. So, one has to be careful with these
estimates, but still it is within these
ranges. During that period, there were
trains full of people murdered,
killed who arrived at their destinations
in both directions. There is a famous a novel, named “Train to Pakistan”, by Khushwant SINGH which tells us the story of that era. But to talk about Samjhota Express, the word
Samjhota in Hindi means a contract or a
compromise. Thus, that is the Samjhota
between the two countries. This train
connects Delhi to Lahore and then of
course, there is this geopolitical tension
between these two countries. Since 2019, there was the loss of Kashmir's autonomy and ever since,
Kashmir was placed under the direct
tutelage of New Delhi.
Since then, this line has been suspended and stopped. However, this line was launched in 1976, following the Shimla agreement. which had marked the end of the Indo-Pakistani war of 1971, related to the liberation of Bangladesh. It is only a 50 km of railway link. At first, the service was daily and then, from 1994 onwards, its frequency was reduced to twice a week. At the beginning, the train was up to Amritsar, but after that, there was this connection between Amritsar and New Delhi, which was also created very quickly. This railway line is a cooperation between Pakistani railways and Indian Railways (IR). The locomotives and the wagons of the two companies are alternated every 6 months. In fact, since this service was discontinued in 2019, India is putting pressure on Pakistan so that Pakistan returns the Indian locomotives and wagons, that are stuck in Pakistan!
And it is thanks to you that I learnt about one
more interesting rail link! So, there is
not only this rail connection but since
2006 and until 2019, we also had another
link between India and Pakistan, Jodhpur – Karachi, that is the Thar
Express. Thar being the desert in
Rajasthan. So, that is great! Because you know,
given the tensions between Pakistan and India, information does not flow easily between
these two countries. There are many
things we do not know about each other. And
that is a real shame. It is thanks to
you, thanks to this book, that I learnt
existence of this line.
Antoine: But indeed, here we have the illustration regarding
what you were saying in the introduction
that the train can connect people. It
can connect ideals and can link values.
And this idea that when precisely,
obviously when you have some tensions
between two states, between ethnic groups, between religions, for varied reasons, then the train could really be there like a cord so as to get as close as possible. But that is why, when talking about
India, because obviously, India is a country of trains and as I said, there is a huge number of railway lines that we take
there, especially many tourists. We know that India attracts a lot of French tourists as well. However, I
wanted to leave aside the tourist
destinations and I wished to show this
dimension of direct geopolitics between India and Pakistan, knowing well that with the nationalist
politics led by Narendra MODI obviously,
these tensions were rather
becoming exasperated. And also seeing the extremely tense situation in
Pakistan.
Thus, unfortunately we were in something where for now, these rail links are closed. Thus, obviously we have to hope that they can function again one day and that the convoys can pass again. Because, the railway directly echoes the turbulences of the world. Thus, it is certain that when the rail
link will work again this border
crossing will be highly symbolic. Therefore, here we have directly, this illustration of the railway as being the echo chamber of global tensions. Now, let us hope that these lines may one day reopen.
Thank you.
Anubandh: Now, let us visit the neighbor of India, that
is China.
China who is spreading out its network or its ambition into the world. Thus, this is the project named “Belt and Road Initiative”. It is a huge project which wishes to touch two-thirds of the world's population. And it is a project with an enormous cost
of over 8000 billions of dollars. This project links, connects China with Central Asia, Europe but also with Africa and America. There are several possibilities and China is not targeting just one of them. China wants to have several possibilities so as not to depend on a single country like Russia, for instance. Especially for connections to Europe, there is the merchandise that comes from China to Europe but also in the other direction. Some dairy products or French wine or others are leaving towards China, but it is
much less. It is more in the direction
of China to Europe and thanks to that, China has become the first trading
partner with the European Union (EU).
Antoine: What you are saying is absolutely right.
And it is really necessary to accurately assess
China's evolution on the railway plan
because of this development. It was
spectacular. You have to imagine this at
different levels. Already on the internal level
when you see its high-speed network,
the evolution it has undergone is
absolutely incredible. Initially, they
took a little bit of advice from Alstom
and so on, to launch their high speed
trains. And today, it is very clear that
their state railway company (CRRC) is the world leader. And we see it in different ways. How much is China really investing in the
railways? So, China is investing at the
internal level by developing its high
speed railway network, in particular to
cope with the fact that, quite simply
since the airline corridors inside China
are saturated. Thus, the population
needs to be transported somehow. And as
you know, right now, I believe, if I am not mistaken, the world's most
populated country is India. However,
China is not far away. And so, faced
with this population, which needs to be transported, to uplift them from the middle classes. And all of this contributes to the
development of the railway.
Nevertheless, there is another goal. There is also an obviously political
aim, in particular that of control on the minorities. And I am thinking in particular of the Ouïghour minority. There is also the Tibetan minority. And this control by the majority ethnic
group, the Hans, this ethnic group which
is in majority in China, it is also done
by the rail. For instance, when China embarks
on this completely crazy project in terms of engineering, and launches this railway line to Lhasa, well, then there is obviously a goal of seizing power, simply to make it easy for the Hans to go to Tibet, making the ethnic group of Tibetans a minority and to make them less and less important. The same applies to the Ouïghour.
And finally, the third aspect about China in
its railway investment, in its railway
policy, it is this idea of setting out
to conquer the world by developing trade. And therefore, through these new silk roads or “Belt and Road Initiative”, depending on the name we want to give
it. In any case, this idea, it is truly essential in order to understand today where is China headed. This is a project that was launched by Xi
JINPING who had to face, certain moments of economic crisis in
China, some ups and downs. But the fact remains that today, China has built its transport corridors. Thus, maritime, it involves a lot of the maritime transport but also rail
transport.
The train occupies an important place and we
can see it in the map that you are
showing Anubandh. This is an excerpt
from the book. So, all these maps are created by Arthur BEAUBOIS-JUDE. In this map,
we can clearly see how China connects
to Europe, in different ways, in order
to avoid being too dependent on any one
country. China indeed has put in place these
different corridors and the
situation is that, we can see Chinese
trains arriving in freight stations in Europe,
in Dortmund or elsewhere. They
are filled with goods and when they
leave, I can tell you that they are
leaving back not with too many things
from Europe. We can really see the trade
balance. It is very clear and when this train departs again, there will be a few bottles of Bordeaux wine, a few other products, but nothing compared to all electronic and other products shipped via China, through this rail
link. And we will find it again, these
new Silk roads, they go all over the
world.
So much so that China is even funding a rail link project across South America to build a bi-oceanic train, from the Pacific to the Atlantic. This is because they want easy access to the wealth of South America, particularly soyabean, for instance. But also steel and different minerals which allowed it afterwards to create railway and maritime
corridors. And also to be able to
develop at the commercial level. Thus, we can clearly see that China's
railways policy is working at different levels;
at geopolitical levels, at
economic levels, at truly ethnic levels.
There are really different interpretations of
its railway investment.
Anubandh: Thank you, Antoine!
You mentioned Lhasa… We do not have much time but I am still
tempted to present this line.
I am not going to go into too much detail
here. I would still say that what I
really appreciated here is the fact that
there are sections that go up to over 5000 meters of altitude and that people take this train to go from Beijing to Lhasa. Instead of taking a plane from Beijing,
people prefer to take the train in order to
gradually get used to the high
altitude. On the train, there is even
oxygen for each passenger, there is a
doctor. For instance, a few days ago in
Paris it snowed and the whole
Parisian railway network was
impacted. And now, it seems to me that
this Beijing - Lhasa railway line exists
at least since 2014 – 2015. And perhaps,
it is the highest railway line in the world.
In any case, it is very impressive.
If you have a few words regarding this rail link.
Antoine: It must also be said that the project is now looking to extend the stretch to
Nepal and as far as Kathmandu. Tthere is
also a kind of railway competition
taking place there, which is playing out
between India and China, across the
Himalayas. And India does not want to
let China dominate all the countries of the Himalayan region. So, you see here
again, these geopolitical issues. Thus, it is a rail line that I unfortunately
have not taken yet. However, I believe that starting from Beijing, to go to Lhasa, it must be a rather striking experience.
Anubandh: Yes, perhaps you did not take that trip because you wrote in the book that access to journalists is forbidden
!
Antoine: That it is, exactly!
Anubandh: Okay. Good.
We will also quickly visit this competition of
high speed trains between China and
Japan. Because in a very short span of
time China now has built over 45,000 km of high speed railway network. Thus, it is the largest network in the
world. I believe, for France, it is less
than 3,000 km of high speed network. And
more than 80% of this global high speed
rail network is now in China, And China,
like Japan… Japan, which is another
giant in this sector, are looking to export their solution. So far, there are two markets that they have
won each. That they have managed to
conquer. For Japan, it is India. It is
the railway project between the city of
Ahmedabad and Mumbai. The railway line
has not yet been completed. And there
are many years of delay. On the other hand, there is one high speed railway
project in Taiwan for Japan. Now Taiwan,
which is China's enemy. And then there is China, which has successfully
completed rail projects in Thailand and
in Indonesia.
Thus, if you have any thoughts on this rail
competition between these two Asian
giants.
Antoine: Yes, because Japan is the historical
player, with their high speed train, the
Shinkansen. With this historical
development of high speed train, it is a
truly a unique model in Japan. Also,
these are private companies whose the
economic model relies heavily on
stations and infrastructure. Linked to
these train stations are cities with
hotels, offices, shops and so on. And that is what brings in the money, a lot of money to the train companies and which allows it to exploit their train infrastructure. On the other hand, obviously, there is
China. It is a more recent actor, but
one that has grown up very quickly. At first, we said yes, China is a bit like the “low cost” of the high speed train. Precisely, as these trains can have safety
problems. There was, in particular, a major accident with their high speed railway. But since then, that is no longer the
case. And indeed, the competition is also becoming technological. In these high speed trains section, with the fastest speeds are now the electromagnetic trains, and so on. So, there is this real technological competition. But it is certain that today China’s share in the
global rail market is increasing
considerably.
As you noted, Anubandh, these are the countries where, in particularly, countries like Taiwan that are not going to entrust to China the construction of its high-speed rail
line. Thus, Japan can count on Beijing's enemies.
Anubandh: Perfect. Thanks.
We are now going to change continents. We are going to America now. And here I am just going to quote the railway
lines that you have dealt with on this
continent. First is called, "North
America: A Cross-Border Network",
“Canada: The First Nations Train”,
"United States: High-speed rail network revived by Joe
BIDEN", “Central America: ‘La
Bestia’, the migrant train.” It is the train
of death. Next, “Latin America: the
bi-oceanic corridor”, that has witnessed
the geopolitical turbulence.
And what I would like to talk about here is the railway line in Canada, "Canada: The First Nations
Train."
And within it, there is also an historical aspect. This line connects the
seven islands. In this area, there are
these seven islands. It connects the
Schefferville area to an another
island. And now, this line belongs
to the very first company “Tshiuetin”, run and owned by the indigenous people. It is a difficult word to pronounce. It is a railway company owned by the indigenous people. Its modernization is meant to improve the access to these communities but also to
facilitate the transport of ores and
minerals. Thus, this area is full of
minerals. But before that, we need to
explore a bit of history. In Canada, the
situation of the indigenous populations is politically a very sensitive subject. In the years 2019 or around this period,
there was a discovery of several hundred
children's bodies, near the residences
of the native people, and these residences
existed in the country between and 1996.
And that is seen as a proof
"of racism, of
discrimination and of systemic injustice”.
These are the words of the
Canadian Prime Minister Justin TRUDEAU.
And it is expected that Canada must learn lessons from the past. And it is in this
spirit, with this recognition of the
genocide, and with this conclusion that
is defended by the commission of inquiry,
that Canada wants to act.
They want to improve the living conditions of these
communities. And there is also an Indian
aspect to it. That is because the mining activity has witnessed a certain rebirth in this
region, since the price of iron has
increased recently. And the Indian
industry giant "Tata Steel" is
also active in this region.
Antoine: In fact, the railway lines tell us the story of the worst and the best of humanity. The worst part is that very often these railway lines were built under the worst conditions. It is important to remember this because many of the lines we are talking about, which are old, which were built in the 19th century, and those that were later renovated and so on, with their construction in the 19th century, during the colonial times and all… Very often, in a large number of cases, we will find it in Sub-Saharan Africa, in
Asia, and so on. These railway lines were
built under the worst conditions, that
is to say, with the exploitation of the
local populations and with an
astounding number of deaths. Because
obviously, although the construction of
these lines, very often, constitutes remarkable
engineering feats. However,
usually the work was being done
without the minimum safety conditions. And therefore, ultimately resulting in the terrifying
outcomes. Thus, when we are riding on
these railway lines, we should spare a thought
to those who had lost their lives
while building these lines.
And today, what better symbol could be
there than to see that in Canada, that a railway line exists today, to be able go to these territories, some of which are a little hostile in terms of their landscape, due to weather conditions, therefore these
can also be quite complicated to
exploit. Thus, these lines are now managed by indigenous communities that were isolated in Canada for so
long. And today, fortunately,
it has been a few years now,
including the tenure of Justin TRUDEAU,
when he was in power, he had
launched this initiative.
Speaking of acts of cultural genocide
of the First Nations, instead of
the outright use of the word
"genocide", which would have
entailed other legal impacts. But in any case, in this context of the recognition of the cultural genocide, today we can witness in the population of Canada a certain willingness to try and support in best possible ways, people of these indigenous communities who have suffered so much. And so to see the re-appropriation of this railway line, with all the financial context which is also very important and thus one can feel happy about. And it shows that, well, not everything
is necessarily doomed and thanks to the renewed railway lines one can witness a change in the
situation.
Anubandh: Thank you.
We will go now to the United States and there the train, it is not like in Europe, or at least, not for the passenger transport. However, the rail network there for
freight, for the merchandise is quite
developed. And in this railway
project you are talking about the “North America: A cross-border network”. It is between the United States, Canada and Mexico.
And this line crosses the United States.
Moreover, there was a treaty of
free trade which was signed in
2020 between these countries. And the company, "Canadian
Pacific" bought in 2021 the
American company "Kansas City
Southern" and it developed this crucial rail axis between the United States and the
Mexico.
Thus, it is also worth noting that this is
happening in a country where AMTRAK,
which is the public sector company and
which manages primarily the passenger traffic,
while the rest of the freight network is private. And so, the other companies in the United
States, they were not very reassured with the construction of this transnational railway line. This is a
project that is also meant to facilitate the automotive industry located in
this area.
If you have any comments about this
project.
Antoine: Yes, because that is the whole paradox. In other words, the United States is very bad
in terms of passengers transport. And
yet, historically, it was a country that
had been pioneer in railways because the conquest from the United States, in particular the conquest of the West, it was done by the
rail, in particular, with a huge number of private companies. And then each company had its own rail gauge. It was very complicated and it did not
help for the country's integration. But
in any case, this conquest of the West
happened thanks to the railway. Thus, in
the past, there was an extremely dense
rail network. But unfortunately, as the
United States then promoted the
development of the automobile or the aeronautics industry, the passenger train traffic had been then completely sidelined, with very little public investment. Once again, the train is a sovereign domain
and therefore the national company
AMTRAK survived and survives, as best it
can.
And as we talked about it, at the very
beginning of our conversation, it had to
be thanks to the arrival of Joe BIDEN on
the scene. First of all, as the vice
president under Barack OBAMA, and then
outright at the White House as the
President and who then relaunched an
infrastructure plan to enable AMTRAK to
build again. But we are obviously very
far away, even if there was a renewed engagement with Pete BUTTIGIEG in particular who was a very important democrat personality and who was the Minister of Transport.
However, there was also this geopolitical
idea to revive United States Railway policy in competition with China, by seeing obviously how China developed on this terrain. Nevertheless, it is not easy to make up for such a delay. That is certain. And all these projects take time, including the high-speed rail project in
California. However, what you see in this map
is that the freight traffic works
very well and for various reasons. This is a territory that lends itself to freight transport much more easily, compared to the one in Europe where the freight traffic has been experiencing many difficulties with a few exceptions, notably
Switzerland or others who have managed
to find some working models. But here in the USA we can indeed see these enormous distances and the impressive traffic of these enormous convoys, you really to have to see them to cross the United States with these huge companies, and these mergers you were talking about. These are also to be considered as a link between the United States, Canada
and Mexico. Obviously, from an
economic point of view but it is also
necessary to have this thought a little
broader from a geographical point of
view, to truly understand this North American rail freight traffic. In any case, for once this could be a model for Europe.
Anubandh: Yes, but is that still the case under
TRUMP? Do you know if there is any
change in politics now or of
direction?
Antoine: Well, what is certain is that TRUMP… I do
not think that TRUMP has a strong
affinity for railways. In any case,
unlike Joe BIDEN, TRUMP wants to put in very, very little public money to develop this type of infrastructure, and that is where obviously the whole issue is. Thus, as indeed, for passenger transport, unfortunately the period and efforts during
Joe BIDEN’s stint must be considered as an exception of this very brief, ultra-Atlantic railway
boom.
Anubandh: Okay. Thank you.
We do not have much time left but I still wish that we visit at least a few lines from Africa and the Middle East.
In Africa,
you have dealt with the line “Tanzara: Pioneer of China-Africa”, "West Africa: Vincent BOLLORE's dream of a railway
loop.” “Mauritania: the train from the desert to a war zone", "South Africa: Social inequality under
the railways."
So, I am interested and I learnt a lot of new things with this railway line "the
Tanzara: China-Africa pioneer” and
especially regarding the role that China
played at that time. Because this
railway line was inaugurated in 1976.
Thus, this refers to countries
Zombiaand Tanzania. And that is
the line you were talking about. The
story of this project is
fascinating because in Zombie, there are many minerals. In order to
transport them maritime ports were
needed and also the links to these ports.
However, these links were refused
by Zimbabwe of Rhodes and so
Zombia had no choice left and it had to
develop this railway link via Tanzania. But to create this railway line money was
lacking. Western countries refused to
help. Thus, it was MAO's China who helped Zambia at that time, not only by giving enormous bank credit for
30 years, without any interest but
also by sending its engineers and
technicians who worked with the people from Africa over there. They built this immense project. And at that time, you emphasized that China was poorer than the African countries.
Thus, it also shows how important this project was
for them.
If you have anything else to add.
Antoine: So, the Tanzara is a railway line that I took and which is absolutely fantastic. As it is,
this railway line is the very
first Chinese project in Africa.
So, you board here the Chinese wagons, with Chinese instructions and all that. Therefore, China's presence in Africa is clearly visible and you go through this
whole line which is obviously
incredible. When you arrive, in
particular on the border between
Tanzania and Zombia, You have this hilly
landscape which is absolutely
beautiful. You are really… It is also a very important passenger connection. It is not just for
freight transport. And so you will
arrive at Kapiri Mposhi. It is not very
far. It is about an hour, I think, by car… May be one or two hours by car from Lusaka,
the capital of Zambia and eventually you
find yourself in…
In exactly the kind of that idea that you
mentioned Anubandh, about this grand
project by Cecil Rhodes, whereas it was
a very colonial project. Let us remember
that, of course, It was about to go from
Cape Town to Cairo by train, in order to
extend his political power, by
traversing the whole of Africa. The
dream has not been fully realized.
However, if we cannot go from North to South, one can go from East to West. In fact, today, and in particular by linking… You can see it
here. If we go back a little through the
Congo and you join there another railway
line, also funded by China, and that is why it is in red on the map in Angola. Then you will arrive in Lobito and you will be able to travel from east to
west.
Moreover, even some tourist companies have launched special offers, paired
with safaris and that kind of
thing. But you can also take the
train separately and it is much better with the local
population. The conditions are sometimes
a bit rough though. But really, you have
a crazy immersion, all the crazy memories, conversations… Really, You get the feel of the country. There is no better way to understand the culture of this region. And thus, you can cross from East to West, Sub-Saharan Africa by train.
Anubandh: Absolutely! It makes me want to Go for it!
Now, quickly, if you also have a few words to
say on this railway loop where Vincent
BOLLORE was involved. But I learned that
he sold his holdings. You explained that
in one of your interviews.
So, there you go, if you also have a few words to say to us.
Antoine: Well, it was Vincent BOLLORÉ, the French businessman today, and better
known for being at the head of
the far-right media, like C News
or Europe 1. But sometimes what we tend
to forget is the fact that originally,
he was an industrialist who made his
fortunes. Above all and besides, if
today he is involved in the media it is
because he managed to sell his assets at
high prices and particularly in the
field of logistics. And this area of
logistics, this was notably in the sub-Saharan Africa where he controlled a large number of ports and railway
lines. And he had a dream, which was to build a railway loop with this idea of always connecting the hinterland to the ports. It is obviously
always the same pattern to bring the
mineral riches to the sea and then load
them into the maritime commerce. And thus he created this loop, from Abidjan
to Cotonou passing through Burkina Faso and Niger. Few parts of this line were already existing but it was necessary to build
sections to connect the whole network.
That is what he did. He went for it. Even before having completely secured the government authorizations and everything. That is something we can notice as being a bit postcolonial. And so, he built about a hundred kilometers
of track. What I show on the map here is
between Niamey and Dosso in Nigeria,
these are lines which are now completely
abandoned. It is a kind of train, a
ghost train since the loop has never been completed, especially because the local
governments, the concerned
countries did not want to get involved in this adventure of this railway loop where China is entrusted part of their network. And I think Vincent BOLLORE retained a great deal of bitterness out of this
experience. It was his dream. He had
invested enormous resources there. He
was ready to invest personally in this
project.
We find this project somewhat similar to the one that you mentioned of Rhodes. Of
wanting to link Cape Town to Cairo
through a railway loop. And through this
rail adventure, something that
speaks also sometimes of the megalomania of certain individuals. In any case, this project does not
exist. He sold it. So, all these assets are now with the company MSC who manages it but does not wish to restart all that was part of the original grand railway loop project.
Anubandh: Yes, and just one thing you also wrote regarding this territory here in red, that it is now invested by China.
Antoine: Yes, so I was there not too long ago. For now, not much is happening. Indeed, there are discussions but you know, the situation remains complicated. Benin is quite an unstable country in that region. Not too long ago, there was even an attempted coup d'état. There is a lot of
instability in the North of the country
where one must cross the train
line.
So, yes.
There was this question regarding
the arrival of China. However, given the
instability, for the time being, it is
suspended.
Anubandh: I would also like to emphasize here the difference between private investment
companies, especially the European or the
American ones and the Chinese state.
Because what concerns CRRC, it is an
investment coming directly from the
Chinese state. Thus, there is also a
difference of the State's approach and that of the private investment.
Now, we
are going to visit the last railway project,
the last continent. That is the
Middle East.
And this particular railway line is with a "crazy beauty", that is what you mentioned in the book! But before I go there, I am just going to
emphasize a few other lines that you
have dealt with in this chapter. So, there is this "Transasia: in the face of the fragile truce between
Turkey and Iran." And we are very
much talking about this region these days.
Then there is the "Hejaz
Train: From the Ottomans to Bashar al-Assad" and “Dubai - Abu Dhabi: the train of the
future, hyperloop”. Now, this is the
Transasia rail link. It is a line that
connects Istanbul to Tehran, between Turkey and Iran. But today, apparently, it is functional only between Ankara and
Tehran.
That is because a high speed line was built
between Istanbul and Ankara. This whole
project is of 2400 km, and the total travel time is 57 hours. And it is a journey of breathtaking
beauty, as you wrote. You will tell us
more. And then there is Iran. For the Iranians, Turkey is the only
country, it is among the only countries,
rare countries where Iranians do not
need a permit, where they do not need a visa.
This journey is divided into three parts. The first part is in Turkey. Then there is a passage through this Lake of Van where there is a
ferry and the passengers pass through an
area, at an altitude of 4000 meters, which is surrounded by hills. And the very last leg of the journey is to
Iran. And then, it goes all the way to Pakistan
for the merchandise. In this
area, there are Kurds who are not not much appreciated and loved by Turkey.
Thus, there are often tensions there.
And it seems to me that, given the tensions. this railway line is no longer in operation
today.
Antoine: Unfortunately, it is exactly like the case of this
railway line we were talking about, Samjhauta Express between India and
Pakistan. That is obviously due to the geopolitical tensions, the line is at a standstill. I was lucky enough to ride it, to go from
Ankara to Tabriz in Iran, which was
an Incredible experience. That was when the President Hassan ROUHANI
was in office, who was in charge in
Iran. So, it was a period of relative
calm that allowed the smooth functioning of this railway line for a while. What was crazy was seeing this Iranian community. As you said, it is one of those rare
possibilities for them to go out, is to
go to Turkey. Thus, we see all these
Iranians, especially on the train and
then on this absolutely incredible
ferry, extremely rusty that I had
taken on the Lake of Van where there
are also some very big cats. Lake of Van is known for its very big cats in
Turkey.
And there is this big ferry which was crossing at night. And there we saw all these Iranians drinking, who were listening to music. They enjoyed on the boat, briefly, a kind of
an idyllic life, that is obviously far removed from the climate of oppression in which they lived. I am also thinking in particular of Iranian women who were there, … much freer,
much more than they were in
Iran. However, Recep Tayyip ERDOGAN's
Turkey is not the most progressive country either. But that does not change the fact that there
was, and we could feel that sense of
freedom. Thus, the Iranian population
enjoyed before crossing the border
again and to go back to their home.
This line is also incredibly beautiful
because it crosses the country, Cappadocia. This is what I was talking about. These very
high mountains and we pass throughout
this area that has a strong Kurdish dominance.
This, in fact, explains why this railway line was very tense. And then we arrived in
Tabriz. In this area where there is a
predominantly Azerbaijani community. We
are not very far from Azerbaijan. It is
the Azerbaijani community that lives there.
And then afterwards, you can continue.
Moreover, in Iran, there are a huge number of railway
lines. We can go as far as near the Strait of Hormuz, to the Bandar Abbas by train. Thus, this is a country today which is witnessing an absolutely dramatic situation. And we think a lot about it. My concern goes
to the Iranian population. But it is
also a country that deserves to be
discovered by train.
Anubandh: That was fascinating! Thank you.
So, here is another railway line that I would
like to take one day, when it will be in operation again. Thank you so much!
We are now coming to the end of this
interview. I have a few final
comments. So, once again, thank you
for having written this book! Especially for all these fascinating
projects, for all these railway lines that I did not know before, the ones that I was unaware of.
However, there is one small, a somewhat
technical aspect that I have noted while reading your book. In the book you often talk about the number of passengers per year and the
tonnage or the tons of goods transported
per year. However, in the technical
jargon, since we do not know how many
kilometers have been actually traveled
by these passengers or the freight, we
multiply it by the kilometers travelled.
So, it becomes, for example, if there are 10 passengers traveling 1 km, then that becomes 10 passenger kilometers. And if it is 10 tons of goods that traveled
10km, then that makes it 100 tonne-kilometres. There you go!
Antoine: Ah… that is interesting!
Anubandh: Thus, it just adds a sort of Quantification. That is per kilometer
travelled by the tonnage or the
passengers.
Antoine: Thank you!
Anubandh: My pleasure!
And I would like to conclude this discussion now with this warning about the environmental
issue that you raised.
So, all of this is great to have rail links
around the world, but there is this race
to build the rails, there are all the
new rail lines that are being
constructed, there are these gigantic
infrastructures that are built. Thus,
there is a risk where you say that all
of this can violently affect our
environment. Therefore, the
environmental argument which is in
favour of the renewal of the railway, could it also be considered as being one of greenwashing in
some way? And with hidden geopolitical
and geo-economic agenda?
So, as a passenger, citizen what should we keep in mind when we read this
or when we hear such arguments?
Antoine: You are absolutely right because it is necessary
to be wary of the environmental
argument. Of course, taking the train
and especially taking the existing rail
routes, obviously, it is much more
environmentally friendly. Considering
these enormous construction projects,
these large infrastructures including the Rail Baltica project, which you mentioned in particular and with which we opened our discussion. Obviously, the environmental impact of such
projects is significant. Thus, it is
really important to ask ourselves, especially whenever there is a launch of a
new infrastructure, can we really not do
without this new infrastructure and
renovate what already exists?
This is essential. And then especially afterwards to asses its real use. It all depends on the use and in particular the shift in traffic, what this can create in relation to air
travel. But we must indeed be wary
because the constructions of the railway line is something that is, from
an environmental point of view,
extremely impactful.
So, there you go, and then we must be wary of
excesses and more market oriented
aspects, of greenwashing, of that sort.
So, there you have it. You need
to have sometimes a rational, reasonable approach. Not everything is green when it comes to the
train, rather, quite the opposite.
Anubandh: “Not everything is green with the train”, perhaps, with these words we should stop
here. Again, thank you very much! And I hope one day to be able to ride all
these wonderful rail routes that you
have proposed in this book. And at that
moment, I will be thinking of you!
Thank you Antoine!
Antoine: Thank you Anubandh!
Anubandh: Thank you so much!
Antoine PECQUER
A graduate of the Lyon National Conservatory of
Music, Antoine plays bassoon in various European orchestras.
He is the author of several
books: « Géopolitique du rail (Autrement) », « Atlas de la
culture (Autrement) », « Les espaces de la musique »,
« l’architecture des salles de concert (Parenthèses) », and
« Les plus beaux opéras du monde (La Martinière) ».
No comments:
Post a Comment